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scpg89
sean golden
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United States
Current Residence: my house . . . duhhhh
Favourite genre of music: i love soundrack music. i like the bg music in anime & such
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So i watched a video on youtube saying that OEL manga was not manga because it is not from japan. Personally i disagree with that statement. Then a whole back and forth begun between a person on the opposing side and myself. Here is our conversation. Let me know your thoughts on the subject, and please let me know if I am in the wrong here.
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My POST ON THE VIDEO:

they don't use different words to differentiate where they came from, it just so happens that different languages are used through out this big old world. crazy, i know. as time progresses, the terms anime and manga are used to differentiate the style, not the region in which something is made. i can be here in america and produce a manga that is then published and sold in japan, what would that make it? you dont have to be in a specific place to create a specific type of art.
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THEM:
anime and manga aren't styles
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ME:
You are correct. In Japan it encompasses all cartoons and all comics. It's only western societies that sees fit to classify manga and anime as Japanese only. I like how you didn't address my question about not being Japanese and making anime and manga for Japan.

Again, you don't have to be a certain type of person, or in a specific place to create a type of art. If a Japanese person creates anime or manga when in another country, that doesn't make it less of a manga or an anime. The same should apply to other people of different races and different nationalities.

There is also a growing number of westerners living in Japan making manga and anime, and distributing to the Japanese market. What's your views on that?

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THEM:
Well I was not attempting to debate you, I was merely correcting you, manga and anime are not styles you are acting like they are.

I wasn't trying to answer your question so don't act like I was avoiding it. It doesn't matter. If it was PRODUCED in Japan it won't be published in America. If so you have to actually have a example to use that as a argument (otherwise it is invalid which it is here). It doesn't matter WHO made it, what matters is whether or not it was produced (made) in America or Japan.

Anime=Japanese cartoon
manga=Japanese comic book

It is NOT disputable. it is a FACT that AMERICA MANGA AND ANIME DO NOT EXIST. It is a FACT that anime and manga re NOT styles. You are factually wrong.

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ME:
I suppose it's a difference of opinion. I am sorry that you are so narrow minded on the subject. I hope that this market continues to grow, and the lines blur even more, so that one day people like yourself may be swayed to be more open minded.

Again, you don't have to be in a certain place to make a certain type of art. It's just silly. And if you merely look up the meanings you would see that they are described as blanket terms. Anime encompasses all animation, and manga literally means comics. Not japanese specific It is only outside of Japan that people get nit picky about the words.

Just don't tell people they are wrong for havin a different opinion. And though I may not like your definition of the the terms, I still accept it as your opinion. Any way, you may reply, but I'm done discussing, I don't think either of us will be changing our minds any time soon.

POST SCRIP:
But I did forget, you said if its produced in Japan then it won't be published in America. Do you mean specifically the pure Japanese forms? Because last time I checked, manga is published in America.

And that's literally jut to clarify, not to continue the back and forth.

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THEM:
It isn't a opinion. It isn't my opinion.
yes anime is the Japanese word for cartoon, but the term is used to tell where it came from, it is NOT my opinion, its fact. You are factually wrong, get over it. Anime and manga aren't styles, you act like they are and then say they are blanket terms.

It is not me saying you opinion is wrong, you are factually wrong.This is not a discussion, this is you not knowing what you are talking about and not knowing your facts. I am correcting you.

I might be sounding arrogant and like a asshole here but it's as simple as that. if someone say America has 40 states your factually wrong and should be corrected.. If you like a COMIC or CARTOON that is made in America, despite the ART style, don't be ashamed to call it that.

It is NOT about open mindedness, at all. i guess you don't know what "factually wrong" means.

POST SCRIPT:
No mangas are produced and published in Japan. And once again the publishing doesn't even matter, PRODUCED=MADE.

made in japan anime/manga

You didn't give me an example, so that makes your argument invalid.

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ME:
But there is evidence that there are more than 40 states. Where is your evidence? Back something up before you say it's not an opinion. Facts can be backed up with evidence. Opinions don't need evidence, they are ideads which we perceive to be true. I have done my readings, which has lead me to this conclusion. If you have sources to make your claim an actual fact then that's what this video should be about. Things grow and evolve all the time, and all I am saying, and what a lot of other people here and all over the world is that the terms are evolving from what they were originally perceived as.

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THEM:
Well m,y evidence is the definition of the words. and I thought you weren't arguing back? guess not.

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ME:
Well i just don't want to be told I'm wrong with out evidence to back that up. This I what I read:

Anime is a style of animation originating in Japan, characterized by colorful graphics and often featuring themes intended for an adult audience.[1] The word is the Japanese abbreviated pronunciation of "animation." The intended meaning of the term sometimes varies depending on the context.

The first sentence states it all. "a style". Originating in Japan, but that doesnt mean it's limited to only Japan.

Also it says the meaning varies on the context. Times are changing and the meaning of manga and anime means one thing to some people, and another to other people. It's opinions, not facts since there is no concrete definition of the terms.

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THEM:
Well i love how you condradict yiourself and ignore all the evidence I satted and act like id din't. Goodbye.

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ME:how is this at all a contradiction to what i said? and you stated no evidence. you said, and i quote,"Well m,y evidence is the definition of the words"

1. you never used any other evidence to solidify it as a "fact"
2. I posted the definition which clearly states it is "a style"
3. The definition also states that the meaning varies depending on the context (i.e. there is no solid meaning of the word and that it can be viewed in different ways.)
4. I am not saying you are wrong in what you believe the meaning is (you can believe whatever you want), I am merely pointing out that you are saying it is "fact" and it is not. it is an opinion, because there is NO solid meaning to the word. and you are trying to tell other people there opinion is wrong.


Perhaps this is still too much for you to understand, i dont know. If you have more evidence to solidify your opinion as a fact, then by all means share away. otherwise do not go around telling other people they are wrong when they share their opinion. i did not tell you that you were wrong, i just stated that i disagree. people are allowed to disagree, but it is just ignorant to tell people that you are factually correct if you are merely stating an opinion.


and one last note.

perhaps my message has gotten lost in all the back and forth, so i do want to clarify my view on the subject.

manga and anime are large multinational/multicultural things. they originated in japan, yes, but they are things that have grown and begun to change. the lines are blurring as more non japanese people and markets take interest in the two. the video this was all posted on says that OEL manga is not manga because it is not japanese. what i meant to get across is that i believe that is manga, more specifically a TYPE of manga. i do believe that manga and anime are japanese made, but that does not stop there being new types or branches of the two. someone says manga and you know what they are talking about. someone says OEL manga, you again know what they are talking about (the format, the bw coloring, the STYLE), and you know it is not from japan, but rather from an english speaking country. i believe it is a style that many artists achieve and produce all over the world, and something that does not limit its self to japan. you are more than welcome to disagree, but neither of us are wrong. until there becomes a solid meaning, then its all just opinions. accept it for what it is and just let it be. why stop something so amazing and beautiful from evolving?
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I know this is a lot to read, and i may have missed some points i was trying to make, but am I in the wrong? I really think it is an interesting subject that is up for debate, so even if you disagree with me I still am interested in your opinion. BUT lets just clarify, these are opinions and not facts yes? I did get that across yes? haha

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